Posts by The Leological One

20

Have many become atheists who've left the Watchtower?

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

thought i've never been a jw, my wife is, and she was df'd a couple months ago when we got married (we were together a short while before getting married).

sometimes it seems she still tries to defend jw doctrines... others, it seems she's about ready to accept the idea of some other views (protestant), and yet i've wondered at times when she says she doesn't know what to believe if she's about ready to forget religion altogether.

i'd prefer she keeps her faith in god but seek her understanding more from the bible than just from other people's doctrines -- esp.

The Leological One

Hi,

Thought I've never been a JW, my wife is, and she was DF'd a couple months ago when we got married (we were together a short while before getting married). Sometimes it seems she still tries to defend JW doctrines... others, it seems she's about ready to accept the idea of some other views (protestant), and yet I've wondered at times when she says she doesn't know what to believe if she's about ready to forget religion altogether. I'd prefer she keeps her faith in God but seek her understanding more from the Bible than just from other people's doctrines -- esp. ones that aren't clear in the Bible. I'm just greatly concerned about her emotional well-being, and I can tell she needs to feel she has something she can put her faith in that's not a constant condemnatory bombardment, i.e. the WT.

What do any of you think, and how do you feel about things after having left the WT or thinking about leaving?

Thanks for any info!

Leonard

52

Slow to help....Quick to punish!

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

ok...thought this was interesting.. mom called this morning practically begging me to go to the jc meeting that's coming up this weekend.

i explained that i had asked 6 different elders to get a study started with me within a span of 4 years because i was "feeling weak".

each time i asked for a study i would say "i need help because i'm losing faith".

The Leological One

Thanks for the info. I've heard of the book and would like to read it, too. I have a few other books, as well.

Sometimes I feel she understands at least some of the stuff she learned is garbage, but then at my grandfather's funeral yesterday, I could tell she had a problem with how it was being preached he was "in heaven," and she told my sister that since he was a good man he at least may "deserve a chance" at Armageddon.

So I think she still wants to hold tight JW views and may actually even want to go back someday, being ignored while sitting in the back of the cong., but then she usually slows down on that talk when I remind her of how she'd always felt left out and never seemed happy at the congregation. But then I think she convinces herself it's because she wasn't perfect enough and didn't put on enough of a smile-y face or how other circumstance hit just at the wrong time. She hasn't ever seemed either down enough on the Watchtower or just plain curious enough to let me show her sites like this one or show her books, but she's at least let me bolster the different view of faith vs. works such as presented in the book of Romans.

I'm just glad I see so many others here who've found some ways to deal with some hefty blows dealt out through DF'ing or just quitting the WT when noticing some things not seeming right or making sense. I know some things like that can rock many people's entire worlds; it's good to see people not just being pulled under entirely but rather climbing out on top, and it gives me hope for my wife, too.

Thanks to those who've shared their experiences after or in the midst of going through them!

52

Slow to help....Quick to punish!

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

ok...thought this was interesting.. mom called this morning practically begging me to go to the jc meeting that's coming up this weekend.

i explained that i had asked 6 different elders to get a study started with me within a span of 4 years because i was "feeling weak".

each time i asked for a study i would say "i need help because i'm losing faith".

The Leological One

"Like my husband always tell me, I try to fix things and while "fixing" I break things because I'm in panic and I need to learn to slow down . And he's right. I'm a person that needs things to be fixed RIGHT NOW. It's hard for me to have patience when it comes to "fixing" things. I'm a very emotional person and I can't go to bed when someone is upset with me. I've just got to learn that you can't fix EVERYTHING over night.

FF"

I know what you mean about having a really hard time just letting things go and going about business when feeling something's wrong. I've learned I can't expect my wife to get over things right away. She may even try to get back in the hall at some point, and I told her if she ever did I'd be there with her to support her while everyone there had to ignore her or look mean or whatever they'd do. Sometimes she gets into crying spells about feeling so unworthy of God and feeling like she hurt a lot of people by getting DF'd, and she seems stuck between hearing me recite verses about forgiveness, grace, and mercy as opposed to the going about doing works to get back in favor -- the works obviously being to put in hours as a JW vs. just getting out and loving one's neighbor as one's self, etc... I hope one day that I'll be able to convince her to check out this site and maybe read a couple books I have as well as check back on several things throughout the WT's history... and then I have to hope it won't totally make her feel everything in this world is as being wrong as some of the things she's been learned to be subjected to and under all those years.

Sorry for the rant, but thanks for your input, and my best wishes to you and all others here. :)

52

Slow to help....Quick to punish!

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

ok...thought this was interesting.. mom called this morning practically begging me to go to the jc meeting that's coming up this weekend.

i explained that i had asked 6 different elders to get a study started with me within a span of 4 years because i was "feeling weak".

each time i asked for a study i would say "i need help because i'm losing faith".

The Leological One

I've hardly ever posted here but started because of a JW friend I had and now am married to since November. It seems like the lack of apparent genuine love for one another within a congregation I keep hearing about may be the most common as well as hurtful reasons a JW begins to question so many things and even drop out of the Watchtower.

I know I've felt a lack of love within standard churches at times but then feel I've been shown a lot more care and concern than such a lack of love as what it seems so many JW's experience, though I'm sure any -- such as my wife -- can share times when they've felt cared about; just not nearly as much as one would think over a life of over 27 years as a JW. It seems so strange to me that those either in higher positions of authority or those in good standing, i.e. pioneering, etc., might be so out of balance, overall, when it comes to trying to help vs. trying to condemn.

I'm still looking for ways to try and keep my DF'd wife convinced that she's not a bad or God-condemned person just because a group of imperfect people judged her and DF'd her. Would they have DF'd King David back in the day?!? I hope you do fine and that people such as my wife can find more peace and understanding that this lame organization does not indeed represent any real and objective truth -- at least none that I can discern. I should say I at least acknowledge that overall good moral teaching is a plus, but I can't find any other upside to the WT...

42

What Made Things Finally "Click" With You To Know This Was Not The Truth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me it was the realization that there was no "faithful & discreet slave", that all the prophecies "proving" that jehovah's witnesses are the only religion approved by god is bogus and the realization that this is a "cult" and there is no real normal sense of love and affection in the "truth".

The Leological One

"All of the above and the lack of love. Also a snide comment from an elder when my sister died.

Merc'"

Sorry to hear that, Merc. I've never personally been a JW but have a good friend who was raised up one and have another currently who means a lot to me and is one reason I've been researching things and reading posts on sites such as this a long time before I first posted.

I've admittedly felt a lack of love sometimes within regular churches, but that's surely not something I've experienced often. The one thing that's had me surprised since starting to read posts like on this thread -- that there really seems to be a lack of genuine love/care/concern in what would seem to be many kingdom halls. I'd think any group of people feeling they're separated from all the rest of the world would have a sense of unity that would express itself in the aforementioned ways of genuine love, care, and concern for one another. It seems strange that it's apparently so different than that, though surely there must be some halls out there with more unity in a loving type of way.

I feel for each of you who've been hurt by acts of shunning, favoritism, etc. that have gone on, and I pray for some major healing for you all,

Leo

62

Name Things That "Prove" JWs Have The "Truth".

by minimus in

jw
friends

....this could be interesting.....

The Leological One

Is there any such thing as being wrong in so many ways that it equals being right~?!

38

What Motivates You to Expose the "Truth About the Troof" to Active JW's?

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

while responding to another thread, i was thinking about how so many of us talk about trying to help "believing dubs" out from the clutches of the wt, while at the same time, it occurred to me that we probably all have different motivations for doing so.

as for me, i am motivated to get my parents out because i think they have the right to know "the whole story" - not just the candy-coated version the wt espouses, so they can make better decisions about how they want to live the rest of their lives.

right now the wt makes all their life decisions for them - including whether or not they should look at what the "other side" has to say about them.

The Leological One

Thanx for the warm welcome jwsons!!!

I'm really glad I found this site, too! It has really helped me to understand much better some JW's I know and have known in the past. Now I understand the different mindset many have, contrasting what I previously believed, and so will help me to be a lot more careful in how I talk to any from this piont on! It was kinda' strange that I had this weird feeling to be very careful in how I talked to the JW girl I know only to find that the way I normally am just a blunt person would've definitely had her stonewalling me a long time ago!

May a lot more JW's search for solid answers and come across this site! Peace to all,

Leo

38

What Motivates You to Expose the "Truth About the Troof" to Active JW's?

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

while responding to another thread, i was thinking about how so many of us talk about trying to help "believing dubs" out from the clutches of the wt, while at the same time, it occurred to me that we probably all have different motivations for doing so.

as for me, i am motivated to get my parents out because i think they have the right to know "the whole story" - not just the candy-coated version the wt espouses, so they can make better decisions about how they want to live the rest of their lives.

right now the wt makes all their life decisions for them - including whether or not they should look at what the "other side" has to say about them.

The Leological One

Hi all,

Ah, yes... I am pretty new here but have been reading posts daily for well over a month now and greatly admire a lot of what I see here! I never was a JW, but I have friends who were and one that still is. One of my close friends was apparently DF'd in a way when a child just because of his family situation/divorce.

I remember once in the late '80's after I recommitted myself to God but still hung out with all my partying friends (of which he was one), several of us were at his apartment after going to a club, and he commented on my Christian shirt saying, "the holy and righteous God can kiss my ass." Then to the sudden silence, I replied, "He will kiss it with flames if you don't change." I didn't realize his true thoughts or views or what he'd been through previously or how those words would affect him.

Over a period of time (we all were/are musicians), we ended up going to Christian heavy metal/punk rock concerts in the early '90's, and he was into bashing Christians while I took up for them. I later learned some things about his previously learned JW views and how he thought he was doomed since he was not one then and had long hair. Over time, I showed him some things from the Bible that revealed a different side of things than he previously knew, and so over time he came to believe in the Bible instead of just what he'd previously heard that had left him feeling like just some doomed soul for the rest of his life. It was encouraging to hear him years later discussing his own thoughts of what he'd read in the Bible that didn't come from his wife, a church, or myself!

Also, a current JW friend (I hope still friend) had e-mailed back and forth with me for a while but started sending some JW mumbo-jumbo replies to what I thought were nice and fine messages. She stopped after I replied to her (rules on) views on Christmas with my own views that I actually felt I was really light on, just saying I thought it was fine for people to either celebrate it or not, that Jesus never commanded us not to celebrate His birth, and that things He did tell us to do, such as helping the needy and spreading the gospel, do occur heavily during the holiday. Then I just glossed it over a bit by just friendly banter about hoping her week goes well and upcoming school semester rocks (surprised she's even allowed to go!). Not a thing back. My e-mail was apparently blocked for a while, but after trying to send one like once a week for a few weeks, I finally got one through (or at least no message "undeliverable") just being friendly and nothing to do with religion at all and still hadn't heard anything in some time.

So that hacks me off somewhat because the JW-type replies seemed a little haughty (and to which I easily could have quashed with even a NWT Bible but not wanting to chance losing a friend), but mainly because it seems obvious she's never had another side/opinion to compare with and how I've learned via this forum and other sites that JW's are trapped into only being able to read/hear their own publications and are under attack of fear of losing their salvation (as it were), family, and JW freinds if they even read "apostate"/other views. I never knew what a trap they are in~! Though what I'd previously known was enough for me to want to see people leave that organization, I never dreamed how insidious a trap is devised for them and how they have no true freedom or "Truth" at all.

I grew up in a divorce situation that had me going first to Methodist, then Baptist, then Pentecostal churches. What I LOVE is that I was never forced into which view my mother or father preferred. I saw good things in each church and some things I wasn't really into. I've learned I can go to pretty much any congregation and get something useful out of it but, at the same time, do not feel compelled or trapped into having to believe exactly the way only they teach or everything they teach is 100% gospel truth.

I also worked at a church that strangely is a cross between Baptist and Pentecostal (the pastor having doctorates in each denomenation) for over 7 years. I'd seen things I was surprised by and almost made me wonder if any churches were real and had me greatly depressed for a long time, and then I'd seen many surprising things there that had me knowing there were great and real things to be found at churches and that people could be aweome and real brothers and sisters. I maybe kinda' understand to some degree how it must feel to be a JW who first sees things about their own belief/hall that make them wonder and have a really scary/negative outlook, yet at the same time being very scared to even take the chance of reading "apostate" literature or being spied on/caught doing so -- or even feeling like they'd be doomed even if not seen doing so since it's such a "bad" thing in the JW view and thus must be blasphemy to God.

This all has me wanting to reach out to them and not just mosh them with certain Bible verses, such as one who came around a few times but could never answer all I'd pointed out to him in his own Bible, thinking then, "wow... I've got him on the ropes," when in reality, he was probably just leaving that last time thinking I was a lost cause/soul. What I want to do is both for selfish reasons and not; I want to free a friend so that she can make her own discoveries and decisions for herself, but I also want all people to feel they have the right to know and understand why they believe the way they do (which would actually STRENGTHEN theif beliefs if the beliefs are based on a valid foundation!) or if there is something else out there they can feel free and absent from guilt to look into. Personally, I'm a Bible-believing Christian (and yes, there've been a couple times when I was awestruck by long-held views I had to confront that didn't line up with the Word but was just taught~ ouch!) and would like to see people free to feel they can know God without any organization ("Let God be true and every man a liar") or even just another person holding it over their heads; at the same time, I realize that many former JW's are not Christians at all anymore for various reasons. I feel all people should be free to understand ALL things and reasons for what and why they believe in what they do. Although I'd like to see everyone a Christian, I don't believe in hiding things from people, keeping them ignorant, in order to do so. Nothing is hidden from me, or at least I have freedom to research anything I want, and I feel all should have that freedom!

God bless, and I am very very glad to see you all feel the freedom you do now and make choices YOU want to make for yourselves! :D

Leo

3

Help! What would you say as a last word to a JW (ex)freind

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've read a lot of posts over the last month or so and seek some advice.

although i was never a jw, i had some good freinds who used to be and still seem to be recovering from the influence.

not long ago, i ran into a different jw i knew from a previous job.

The Leological One

Thanks Euph! I've just been kinda' bummed that she may've put my e-mail to junk folder, though~ Oh, well... can't make anyone read what I send, eh? Heh

I appreciate your response and am glad to know your thoughts and will keep them in mind for sure!

Have a good one,

Leo =D

3

Help! What would you say as a last word to a JW (ex)freind

by The Leological One in

jw
friends

i've read a lot of posts over the last month or so and seek some advice.

although i was never a jw, i had some good freinds who used to be and still seem to be recovering from the influence.

not long ago, i ran into a different jw i knew from a previous job.

The Leological One

Hi,

I've read a lot of posts over the last month or so and seek some advice. Although I was never a JW, I had some good freinds who used to be and still seem to be recovering from the influence. Not long ago, I ran into a different JW I knew from a previous job. I think she looked up to me at least as being a somewhat good person. She "backslid" and got caught up into some worldly guys there, though at the time I wasn't sure she did at all, and I was seating her away from certain people she felt was talking about her (I was a supervisor at a call center), and she seemed really paranoid (and is currently on some type of meds, too, but she's intelligent--doing great in school!).

Well... I ran into her for the first time in years just at the beginning of Fall, and we talked via e-mail about 2-3 times per month, but I got a couple strange replies from her that seemed to be scolding/going off on me over nothing. One was for sending her a story I wrote that had a woman kicking some butt trying to save her husband, and the other e-mail was for wishing her a good Christmas.

As you can already see, I was still somewhat ignorant of some WT teachings/beliefs. I felt really weird about responding harshly or with too much of my own viewpoint, but I sensed she was berating me possibly. She went off a while about Jesus saying to celebrate His death rather than His birth (almost like to someone who'd never heard of the Bible or something--seems like just right out of an Awake mag to me now~) but surprised me at the end by inviting me to a Memorial or something. After about a week, I responded in a nice tone with how I believe it's fine to either celebrate or not celebrate Christmas, that it was never commanded not to do so, and that Jesus did command us to do good deeds and that a lot of helping the needy and spreading the gospel happens on Chistmas. I then kinda' went into some non-related "just wishing her well" stuff and that was it.

But I never got a reply and was unable to send e-mail to her for a while (blocked?!). Then I got one through but no response. Hadn't heard from her in a month but never got any negative mail saying we were through talking or anything. Is this normal? I'd wondered about putting together a last e-mail and sending it from my other account to make sure it gets through, but I'd read where things can be taken in such a way as to strengthen a JW's resolve in their organization, and I don't want to do that or seem mean at all but also have a really hard time feeling I shouldn't at least say something.

What do you awesome previous JW's think? Any advice would be great, and I hope you can tell I really do care about her -- which is why I hate the thought of her life being run/ruined by the society like I'd been reading about! I'm really glad to read about all of you freed up now, too!

Leo